Douglas Murray says what others are too scared to admit about Gaza Download YouTube 2023-11-10 (#102) < Previous Next > Douglas Murray answers questions regarding a view expressed by Barack Obama about the potential radicalization of extremists as a result of the numerous civilian casualties in Gaza. He replies that, according to that view, not only shoudl Israel just sit back and do nothing, but also that there is a peaceful population in Gaza aching for a 2 state solution. This is not so, as proven by video coverage of one of the victims of rape and murder by Hamas who was subsequently paraded in the streets of Gaza. The video shows a group of ordinary Gazans spitting on her, hitting and mutilating her body further. Not one person told them to stop. Piers Morgan asks Douglas Murray if he endorses collective punishment for the actions of a few. Douglas Murray replies that there is some collective responsibility because the Gazans elected Hamas. It is routinely claimed that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza but there is a constant population boom there. The comparison between Hamas and the Nazis is insufficient: the Nazis were ashamed of what they did and tried to cover their crimes, while Hamas did what they did with glee,were deeply proud and some phoned their parents at home to boast. They also said they would continue to commit such atrocities until the whole world is clear of Jews. The world should take that seriously! Video Transcription: Coming soon

Palestinians' unique refugee agency: aid or hindrance? Download YouTube 2024-02-03 (289) < Previous Next > Did you know that Gigi Hadid is a refugee? Yes, the LA native, multi-millionaire American model is a Palestinian refugee despite never living anywhere near the Middle East. Absurd, right? The reason for that is UNRWA. Now, we have been talking about UNRWA all week, so in case you missed, many countries around the world have stopped giving money to UNRWA as it was discovered that many UNRWA employees celebrated and even took active part in the October 7th massacre. And in general, UNRWA textbooks are filled with hate, violence and calls for terror. Turns out UNRWA is not much of a UN branch, but more of a Hamas branch. But even if you put all that aside, there is still a huge problem with UNRWA. You see, UNRWA is the UN agency that deals with Palestinian refugees. But the UN already has a refugee agency, the UNHCR, United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees. It deals with all refugees around the world except for Palestinians who have UNRWA. Another agency just for them. Why do Palestinians deserve a special agency? Nobody knows. Do Palestinian refugees deserve more than the 2.6 million who were forced to flee Sudan last year? Well, according to the UN, the answer is yes. See, despite serving 13 times more refugees, the UNHCR has half the number of staff members and money-wise it gives half for each refugee compared to UNRWA. And you know what is the best thing about the UNHCR? It is shrinking. That's good, think about it. The UN has decided that being a refugee is a bad thing. We don't want people to be refugees. We want them to find a home. If they were forced to leave their country, we want them to gain citizenship elsewhere. And that's what the UNHCR is doing. It makes sure its refugees stop being refugees. That's why it's shrinking. The UNHCR helped 22,000 refugees gain citizenship in 2020 alone. That is amazing. That is their purpose. But for UNRWA, it's the other way around. It started with 700,000 refugees and it now stands at 5.6 million. It actually expands. And do you know why? Well, first of all, since forming in 1949, UNRWA has yet to resettle a single refugee. Not a single one. And second of all, UNRWA invented a new definition for its refugees. Under UNRWA, unlike any other refugee around the world, the refugee status is carried out to next generations. Meaning, that if your grandfather left Israel in 1948 and settled in Jordan, where you and your parents were born and gained citizenship and full rights, both you and your parents are still considered Palestinian refugees under UNRWA. That's how Gigi Hadid became a multimillionaire refugee. That's how the number of Palestinian refugees keeps growing, even though millions of them actually have another citizenship. Are you beginning to understand the absurdity of UNRWA? When the goal of all refugees is to stop being refugees, UNRWA does everything in its power to make sure its refugees stay refugees. Not only that, it wants more and more refugees. Because that is how UNRWA gets paid. UNRWA is the largest employer of Palestinians. If they stop being refugees, they will stop needing UNRWA. And UNRWA wants to be needed. That is how it gets paid. And it gets paid a lot. In conclusion, UNRWA has a huge incentive to preserve refugee status. And to be honest, that is the opposite of what we expect from a refugee agency. And do you want to know what UNRWA says about all this? They say that all Palestinians have a right to return to Israel. To all of Israel. Even if they never lived there. You see, according to UNRWA, Gigi Hadid has a right to my home in Tel Aviv, despite the fact that neither she, nor her parents, nor her Dutch grandmother ever lived there. And according to UNRWA, until that happens, until Israel is completely empty of all Jews, until then, all the Palestinians who live in Gaza or the West Bank should not strive to get a new citizenship and rights, but to stay miserable and dependent on UNRWA. So basically, UNRWA's entire existence is based on the premise that Israel should not exist. That's why it teaches every Palestinian kid to hate Jews and to long for martyrdom. That's why it recruits teachers who have connections to Hamas-ISIS. That's why it doesn't help its refugees. Not a single one of them. Folks, UNRWA is not really a refugee agency. It's a political movement with very strong ties to terrorist organizations. Video Transcription: Did you know that Gigi Hadid is a refugee? Yes, the LA native, multi-millionaire American model is a Palestinian refugee despite never living anywhere near the Middle East. Absurd, right? The reason for that is UNRWA. Now, we have been talking about UNRWA all week, so in case you missed, many countries around the world have stopped giving money to UNRWA as it was discovered that many UNRWA employees celebrated and even took active part in the October 7th massacre. And in general, UNRWA textbooks are filled with hate, violence and calls for terror. Turns out UNRWA is not much of a UN branch, but more of a Hamas branch. But even if you put all that aside, there is still a huge problem with UNRWA. You see, UNRWA is the UN agency that deals with Palestinian refugees. But the UN already has a refugee agency, the UNHCR, United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees. It deals with all refugees around the world except for Palestinians who have UNRWA. Another agency just for them. Why do Palestinians deserve a special agency? Nobody knows. Do Palestinian refugees deserve more than the 2.6 million who were forced to flee Sudan last year? Well, according to the UN, the answer is yes. See, despite serving 13 times more refugees, the UNHCR has half the number of staff members and money-wise it gives half for each refugee compared to UNRWA. And you know what is the best thing about the UNHCR? It is shrinking. That's good, think about it. The UN has decided that being a refugee is a bad thing. We don't want people to be refugees. We want them to find a home. If they were forced to leave their country, we want them to gain citizenship elsewhere. And that's what the UNHCR is doing. It makes sure its refugees stop being refugees. That's why it's shrinking. The UNHCR helped 22,000 refugees gain citizenship in 2020 alone. That is amazing. That is their purpose. But for UNRWA, it's the other way around. It started with 700,000 refugees and it now stands at 5.6 million. It actually expands. And do you know why? Well, first of all, since forming in 1949, UNRWA has yet to resettle a single refugee. Not a single one. And second of all, UNRWA invented a new definition for its refugees. Under UNRWA, unlike any other refugee around the world, the refugee status is carried out to next generations. Meaning, that if your grandfather left Israel in 1948 and settled in Jordan, where you and your parents were born and gained citizenship and full rights, both you and your parents are still considered Palestinian refugees under UNRWA. That's how Gigi Hadid became a multimillionaire refugee. That's how the number of Palestinian refugees keeps growing, even though millions of them actually have another citizenship. Are you beginning to understand the absurdity of UNRWA? When the goal of all refugees is to stop being refugees, UNRWA does everything in its power to make sure its refugees stay refugees. Not only that, it wants more and more refugees. Because that is how UNRWA gets paid. UNRWA is the largest employer of Palestinians. If they stop being refugees, they will stop needing UNRWA. And UNRWA wants to be needed. That is how it gets paid. And it gets paid a lot. In conclusion, UNRWA has a huge incentive to preserve refugee status. And to be honest, that is the opposite of what we expect from a refugee agency. And do you want to know what UNRWA says about all this? They say that all Palestinians have a right to return to Israel. To all of Israel. Even if they never lived there. You see, according to UNRWA, Gigi Hadid has a right to my home in Tel Aviv, despite the fact that neither she, nor her parents, nor her Dutch grandmother ever lived there. And according to UNRWA, until that happens, until Israel is completely empty of all Jews, until then, all the Palestinians who live in Gaza or the West Bank should not strive to get a new citizenship and rights, but to stay miserable and dependent on UNRWA. So basically, UNRWA's entire existence is based on the premise that Israel should not exist. That's why it teaches every Palestinian kid to hate Jews and to long for martyrdom. That's why it recruits teachers who have connections to Hamas-ISIS. That's why it doesn't help its refugees. Not a single one of them. Folks, UNRWA is not really a refugee agency. It's a political movement with very strong ties to terrorist organizations. UNRWA is the opposite of what we need. It's the opposite of what Palestinians need. It's time to put a stop to this absurdity. It's time to defund UNRWA.

It’s not cool to support Israel Download YouTube 2023-10-18 (#001) < Previous Next > For someone growing up in North America, the Middle East has always been considered a complex issue. However, the current situation involving Hamas, which is internationally recognized as a terrorist organization, and their brutal actions targeting families and communities in Israel, is not related to the concept of a free Palestine. This is not a conflict; it represents a stark reality of tearing families apart through murder and the abduction of elderly and children from their homes. These atrocities are reminiscent of horrors not witnessed since the Holocaust, and there is no ambiguity in the necessity to condemn and disseminate the truth about these events. #TikvaInternational" Video Transcription: I know that it's not cool to support Israel I grew up in North America I get it everybody says the middle least conflict is complicated and they're torn but you need to know that there is nothing complicated about the situation right now nothing to be torn up about it's very plain and simple and the truth is that with Kamas which is an internationally recognized terrorist organization the reality of what it means to free Palestine looks like this hords of people brutally massacred and left in body piles like animals entire families no entire communities erased and families torn apart by death children from their parents and parents from their children who were shot directly at gunpoint with their hands tied behind their backs elderly kidnapped from nursing homes children kidnapped out of their beds and taken hostage crying out for their moms and for everything to stop teenage girls their bodies raped and maimed and next to their dead bodies of their friends and then their bodies taken and proudly paraded naked through the streets of Gaza civilians h in in their homes and pretending to be dead for like 24 hours while getting hunted by Kamas stories we haven't heard since the Holocaust look at the videos read the facts and consult your inner moral compass condemn Kamas and weep for this utter desecration of human life you shouldn't be conflicted about the Middle East anymore The Truth is Out share it support Israel

Noga Erez is reading messages of victims Download YouTube 2023-10-26 (#049) < Previous Next > Singer Nora Erez reads out messages people sent while the massacre was happening Video Transcription: Coming soon

Sky News’ forensics unit have investigated what happened to Kibbutz Be'eri. Download YouTube 2023-11-15 (#123) < Previous Next > The Story of Kibbutz Be'eri. Sky News 💔 Behind the unbelievable numbers, there are people, whose stories ended way too soon. There are also survivors, who wish to realize one thing; How to move forward? Sky News’ data and forensics unit have investigated what happened to Kibbutz Be'eri and has identified more than 80 civilians who died there. It was targeted by Hamas in a widespread attack on 7 October that left 1,200 Israelis dead. Video Transcription: Beeri was actually paradise for us. We lost our homes. Our community was butchered. Beeri, a kibutz in southern Israel, was one of the first places targeted by Hamas in a surprise attack on October 7. Militants broke in, burned town homes, captured hostages, and killed 131 people. Sky News has verified the identities of 118 of them. We are completely heartbroken, completely. It's just one of the many communities targeted that day. More than 10,000 Palestinians have died in the ensuing war. But it started with the attacks on October 7 that led 1200 Israelis dead and hundreds more still held hostage. We don't know whether they're dead or alive. We investigated how the atrocities in Berry unfolded and spoke to residents and victims family members to help tell the story of murder, kidnap, and survival. Berry is about 5 km from the border with Gaza in southern Israel on October 7, at around 07:00 a.m. CCTV camera footage shows two Hamas fighters approaching the front gate of the kibbutz. They can't get past the metal bars at first, but then, as a resident drives up to enter, they ambush the car, killing those inside, and they run into the village. Around the same time, Amit Man, a 22 year old paramedic, was running from the safe room in her home to the local dental clinic, which was used as a first aid post. During the attack. We realized she was running to the clinic even though she was told to stay inside of the safe room. Despite being at the clinic, she was in touch with her sisters on their family WhatsApp group throughout the day. She sent them a message once she arrived, as she began treating the wounded, telling them her Hamas had arrived in town. Basically, she stayed there from 07:00 a.m. Until 02:15 p.m. Amit sent her sisters an audio message as her masked gunmen entered the clinic. This footage shows the aftermath of the fighting. Haviva and Lior wanted Sky News to play the recording that they shared, but a warning, it's distressing to listen to: "Please, make it stop they are here" her sisters managed to call her back before the line dropped. That was the moment that I lost hope. That was the last time that anyone spoke with her. As Hamas fighters moved through the kibbutz, militants entered the home of the GATT family at around 09:30 a.m.. A video posted on social media, verified by Sky News, shows 68 year old Kineret Gatt in a brown shirt being led away by gunmen. Kenneth GaTt's nephew was in Tel Aviv at the time. When he saw the video circulating online, he couldn't believe his eyes. I just sent it to my mother and said, this is Kineret, right? And she said, yeah, of course. And we couldn't believe that what we were seeing was her, but there was no question about it. Another clip, taken shortly after shows her body lying with three others on the ground by the cemetery gate. She was later confirmed dead. Eshel, her husband hid and survived. Other members of the Gatt family are believed to have been taken hostage. Carmel Gatt and Yarden Romen Gatt. Meanwhile, only a few streets away, Sophie Mackie was in the safe room of her house with her young children. CCTV footage shows that the Israeli military were on the scene from approximately 10:00 a.m. But locked in their safe room. Sophie and her kids were unaware for several hours. I just sat there with terrified children, and I actually understood the time going to die. At 06:15 p.m. Israeli military personnel knocked on the door of Sophie's home. They weren't able to rescue us at that time because we were still under fire. The kibutz was still full of terrorists. And so we went together with our neighbors up to their safe room, and we sat there for hours in complete darkness. It wasn't until midnight that Sophie and her family were finally rescued. After hiding in silence for nearly 20 hours, I went into the safe room at 06:30 in the morning, knowing what my world looks like. And I emerged from it almost 20 hours later. And my home was destroyed. There were dead bodies lying everywhere. I couldn't recognize anything. The attack left Berry changed forever. Sophie and her kids survived, but Kineret and Amit were among 131 people who died in Berry. Sky News has verified the identities of 118 of them, including Israeli security personnel. 88 were civilians. Nine were children under the age of 18. The youngest was a nine month old called Mila Cohen. 24 people were age 70 or older. The eldest, an 88 year old woman called Hannah Kritzman. We've also verified 30 civilians who are considered missing or being held as hostages. That's 118 civilians who are in Berry that lost their lives or are believed to be missing or taken as hostages and have been identified by Sky News. Sky News approached the Israeli government and the Israeli military with our findings. Both departments declined to comment. A Hamas representative did not reply to our messages. The military finally claimed back control on October the 9th. Just over one month later, survivors are contemplating how to move forward. Of course we want to go back and rebuild the situation between Israel and Gaza. We can't go back to the way things were. That's not even an option. But time goes by and we are slowly healing from the trauma.

Pro-Palestinians in Chicago try to grasp the meaning behind their chants. Download YouTube 2023-11-23 (#151) < Previous Next > At a pro-Palestinian rally in Chicago, there were calls for Intifada as the only solution. When asked, the protesters couldn't explain, had no idea what it means. Freedom? Life? Maybe the solution is education? Video Transcription: Coming soon

Why Israel's Response to Hamas Was Justified by Natasha Hausdorff Download YouTube 2024-01-24 (276) < Previous Next > Natasha Hausdorff on what is a proportional response to a terrorist attack?‎ What does genocide involve?‎ And is South Africa's case at the International Court of Justice justified?‎ Presenters: Mark Oppenheimer and Jason Werbeloff Editor and Producer: Jimmy Mullen and Porter Kaufman Credits: UKLFI Charitable Trust Video Transcription: welcome to Brin and evat we are absolutely delighted to be joined by Natasha Hof who is an expert at international law and a UK barister and we're going to be talking about the current conflict between Israel and Hamas Natasha would you like to start with the events of October 7 the circumstances that that cause us to uh come together uh now three months after the 7th of October uh are unfortunate to say the least uh it was in the early hours of the 7th of October that Israel experienced an attack uh planned as we now know for at least two years by the internationally prescribed Terror organization Hamas uh an attack that began of course with uh the firing of rockets and air raid sirens and that now appears to have been a cover for Mass infiltrations through the border on a scale uh which overwhelmed uh The Limited Security Forces which were that time uh on a religious holiday um stationed around the Border area and we all know now of the atrocities that were committed by Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist organizations and by all accounts also by ordinary civilians who followed through those border breaches when I say this had been planned for a number of years it's important to understand that many people in Israel uh while they would have been shocked that such truly horrific events uh could have happened the nature of what happened uh may not have come as a surprise to many and that is because if you have followed uh the media uh and literature and educational resources uh specifically of of the Hamas controlled Gaza Strip but also across the palestin authority and and the West Bank um the nature of what was perpetrated was not surprising in fact uh it has been part of the um stated agenda certainly of Hamas but also of other Palestinian terrorist organizations uh and it is part and parcel unfortunately of an education system instituted 30 years ago through the Oslo Accords under the control of the Palestinian Authority in which uh suddenly the terrorists that crossed the border on the 7th of October had been educated from a very young age that the highest calling in life was martyrdom and uh that their their highest uh aim ought to be to slaughter as many Jews as possible 3,000 terrorists don't wake up one morning and decide that it's a good day to slaughter Jews and you do not create thousands of people who can perpetrate the kind of atrocities that we saw on the 7th of October cutting the uh belly open of a pregnant woman burning and beheading children maming them in front of their families Mass rape and Slaughter um and uh the mutilation of people uh both dead and alive that is not um conduct that I believe is natural in human beings and it has to be taught and instilled in a very uh concentrated Manner and and with a concerted effort and according to un statistics if we look at the number of children who are educated who have grown up in the unra school system un run schools three out of four of the terrorists who crossed the border on the 7th of October were educated in that school system were educated to commit those sorts of Terror atrocities there are also other factors uh that led to the ability of uh Hamas and other terrorist organizations to infiltrate into Israel to commit the atrocities of the 7th of October and when I say other Palestinian Terror organizations amongst the terrorists that committed those atrocities were pflp members uh the filiates of fata the so-called moderates in the West Bank that run the Palestinian Authority uh and there were Palestinian Islamic Jihad and it's important to remember that all of those terrorists who had previously been convicted and and some of those that planned the attack of the 7th of October were released in the gilad Shalit deal members of of Hamas and the N Force um they had been paid salaries continuously by the Palestine Authority the so-called moderates in this equation these Terror salaries under the pay for slay program which is enshrined in Palestinian law uh are paid to terrorists irrespective of what Banner they coales under and they are paid on the basis of the severity of their crimes how many many Jews they have managed to slaughter and the length of their sentences and so the incentivization of Terror and the education and indoctrination towards Terror that we have seen for a number of decades both contributed significantly to the 7th of October atrocities there is another factor that needs to be taken into account to understand the context uh of those events and that is international pressure for security concessions because was between uh January and August 2023 there were over 400,000 entrances from Gaza into Southern Israel mostly work permits uh permitting people from Gaza to come and work in the communities that lived in the South along the border with Gaza and we now know that these um entrances uh the workers that came over on these permits were Central to the planning of this attack an attack that involved uh units of terrorists spreading out across the southern communities uh with clear instructions uh paperwork that was found on them with maps detailed information house by house on a on a household by household basis how many people how many children whether there was a dog whether was a gun and what they were instructed to do to each family and when one takes into consideration that the people that lived in these Southern communities were amongst uh the most vocal proponents for coexistence for cooperation for initiatives uh for water supply uh in Gaza and uh economic initiatives uh driving Palestinian civilians of the Gaza Strip uh to hospital uh in Israel across the border when they were coming for treatment these are the people that were attacked uh these are the people that had done more than anyone else in Israel to seek to Foster positive relations with their neighbors uh and they paid for uh that with their blood uh and the security concessions one of which I've highlighted in the context of the permits that permitted people from the Gaza Strip to come into Israel on a regular basis were also unfortunately a very significant factor in the planning and the ability of Hamas to execute about what was the bloodiest day uh in Jewish history since the Holocaust thank you Natasha this it's a a difficult topic especially on a philosophy show because something that we do with all of our guests uh even if we agree with our guests which in this case I do is to present objections um that would be offered on the other side um so I'm going to try and do that even though I don't hold these objections U I don't normally have to give a caveat like that normally in flos we can play with positions but here this is a really serious topic um so one of the objections given and there's many but one of the objections given um is that the empirical data is wrong so these terrible things didn't happen or there's a minimizing so they'll so so objectives will say well there weren't any rapes there weren't um and then it's difficult to it's difficult to to argue against false accusations or false false news being propagated how false denials the case maybe false denials yeah so so so how do you go about trying to defend empirical claims um against people who try to minimize the horrors of of what happened very early in this process uh I was invited to um a debate at University College Dublin in Ireland and the very first uh contribution from the floor in terms of questions uh was where is your evidence to the 7th of October um and while it may have been surprising at the start of uh this process that immediately after those atrocities were committed um in a way we've got used to these false denials and of course that the straightforward answer to that is look at the material that Hamas themselves put out if you don't want to take the word of Israeli survivors Witnesses of the zaka team that collected these bodies and documented and gave interviews explaining uh the aftermaths of these victims of grotesque sexual assaults of gang rapes of broken pelvises of teenage girls uh that were simply left shot in the head after these violent sexual assaults had taken place if you're not prepared to take into account all of that overwhelming evidence and in the context of you know believing victims and uh the modern movement especially in relation to violence against women uh that is extraordinary in and of itself but put all over that aside and look at what Hamas have put out themselves because they haven't hidden their crimes and their atrocities on the contr they have celebrated them they have circulated footage of their atrocities with Glee and they have promised to do the 7th of October over and over again the fact that we also see schizophrenic uh changes to this you know on the one hand they say the 7th of October didn't happen and these are all Israeli lies or the atrocities were not committed or they only targeted combatants and not civilians I mean we know that's not the case because by the same token they also celebrate their crimes so um I I find that uh when dealing with false denials one really has to pick one's battle if people are not willing to engage uh with the obvious and the evidence uh that has been uh transmitted around the world and also compiled uh by the Israeli authorities uh in the sort of 42 minute long uh video of some of the atrocities captured on Hamas GoPros uh and the like um then uh then I think these are conversations that are probably not going to be productive so the Israeli response has been that in order to secure the safety of its citizens um to secure Jewish life not just in Israel but really around the world because Israel is a safe haven for all Jews that it is now imperative to eradicate amas now engaging in its War um there have been some horrible civilian casualties as I think you would find in any War can you tell us a bit about what are the requirements to fight a war that meets the international law standards of a just War uh so just War Theory and and I appreciate it on a philosophy show this is something uh that people will wish to engage in perhaps more so than any practicalities of it um is is very interesting from an academic standpoint um so far as Israel's response is concerned one doesn't need to go uh any further than a very very basic and fundamental uh aspect of customary international law if you will which is self-defense um it is not bestowed on any state this right of self-defense it is an inherent right of self-defense it is considered so fundamental it is recognized in article 51 of the UN Charter as being inherent uh and no one can take that away uh no circumstances can stop a state defending itself and critically defending its citizens that is of course any uh Democratic uh government's primary responsibility and in the context of exercising one's self-defense the rules of armed conflict govern what is lawful and what is not lawful in uh International humanitarian law the laws of war there are three key principles that govern a state's behavior in armed conflict the rule of military necessity means that a state can only undertake action which is militarily necessary to advance its military aims uh a second rule of international uh humanitarian law is the rule of Distinction which means that law- abiding states are required to distinguish between combatants and civilians and only combatants and Military objects may be targeted by strikes um and civilians and civilian objects are not permitted to be targeted uh but they may unfortunately come into a calculation of uh proportionality and the proportionality role is the third key rule in the law of armed conflict and that requires that a strike that is militarily necessary and that targets military infrastructure military targets must nonetheless also be proportionate which means that the anticipated military advantage of a strike uh must be balanced against the anticip ated likely civilian collateral damage the international law uh as a framework in armed conflict works on the Assumption the basis that civilians uh will unfortunately be killed uh in the that is a a gruesome uh deadly uh context that war is and that is perhaps the most misrepresented uh rule of customary international law and the law of armed conflict uh it's frequently suggested that proportionality is about balancing casualty figures on both sides I mean that is um grotesque it is plainly incorrect as a matter of law but also as a matter of of Common Sense uh I'd say it's objectionable uh that there needs to be a uh comparison of casualty figures it leads to the um uh ultimate conclusion that you not enough Jews have died to uh justify Israel's response and taking out uh Hamas that that is not how how uh Common Sense uh operates but it's also not how international law operates um the rule of proportionality as I was describing uh requires uh a balance between the military uh Advantage sought to be gained and the anticipated collateral damage and that is conducted uh on the basis of the information that is known to a military commander in real time it's an intention based uh Rule and Analysis it's not based on on the effects and mistakes are sometimes made especially in the in the dangerous circumstances and the fog of War but uh the real critical thing to assess is how an army uh operates how it goes about selecting strikes and applying the laws of armed conflict and in Israel's case the military Advocate General core uh which is the legal department of the IDF sits outside of the chain of command it is answerable to the Attorney General so that those officers in the mag Corp are able to tell more senior officers in the IDF chain of command yes or no with respect to uh the Striking decisions and what law says and that's critical it tells us that Israel puts adherence to international law extremely highly but I would also uh warrant that uh in Israel's case it goes above the requirements of the laws of armed conflict especially with respect to the principle of precaution which is another aspect of the laws of armed conflict but requires law abiding armies to take precautions to minimize civilian casualties Israel in fact goes over and above uh both requirements of international law and standard practice of modern uh law-abiding armies in the warnings that it issues to civilians in uh the text messages that it sends to individual householders the phone calls that it makes uh the efforts that the IDF have uh undertaken in this Exchange in Gaza as in previous rounds of conflict in the Gaza Strip are unparalleled in the history of warfare uh and uh that is I think also Testament not just to the legal adherence but also the morality the code of ethics that the IDF operates to so one of the arguments put forward is that there isn't proper proportionality here um that too many Palestinian civilians have died specifically children I think the number that's floated is 4,000 Palestinian children have died um in the conflict and the question is how do you do the calculation so suppose there's a famous terrorist or there's a bunch of class terrorist in an area where there's a whole lot of children that's it's in a school um what is the what is the calculation in in in pressing the fire button on on that missile you know at what at what point a different way to phrase the question is at what point is it is it not okay um how many children would you need in the vicinity for it not to be okay and once you reach that answer let's say it's 10 children for everyone from a spider or 100 children for everyone from the sper can't you work your way back and say well you know if it's not okay to kill 100 children surely it's not okay to kill one child so one of the arguments put forward is well ifas has embeded themselves in a civilian ation which it seems is very much a part of their their ethic or lack of Ethics um doesn't doesn't that put further constraints on Israel to do anything at all um that involves Southern in casualties if that were the case it would give Kamas and other uh likeminded terrorist organizations uh immunity so I would say that cannot be the case and it certainly isn't the case in international law when we come to the calcul ations that you've described we are hamstrung in this instance because we do not have reliable numbers of casualty figures coming out of the Gaza Strip what Hamas have been putting out through the Ministry of Health that they control in the Gaza Strip uh are figures that cannot be trusted and critically they do not make um a distinction between civilians and combatants they also do not uh identify how it is that uh these reported casualty figures uh have come about their demise it's important to remember that Hamas have been shooting uh fleeing civilians the United States have confirmed amongst others that this is the case bombing also civilian convoys in the first few weeks of this conflict uh this began uh because they are so desperate to hang on to uh their human shields uh because uh from Hamas this is a win-win situation uh if it drives up casualty figures uh purported casualty figures or real ones then there is international pressure on Israel uh to cease its lawful um objectives of uh of of annihilating Hamas and making sure that the threat against Israeli civilians is taken away uh and if it succeeds in uh dispelling Israeli attacks as it has done in many cases where Israel has had to call off proposed strikes because there were too many civilians in the vicinity then it also succeeds in um uh in its immunity uh from uh from the law otherwise lawful attack on a military uh installation Hamas stronghold or a rocket launch site um the numbers here are are as I say uh very difficult to navigate but it's important to do so in the proper context um even going according to Hamas figes uh and the Israeli figure of 9,000 combatants which it is confirmed it has killed 9,000 terrorists that is identified through intelligence that it knows that it is taken out then we are even according to the K casualty figures that we cannot trust we're looking at a potential civilian to combatant ratio that Israel has estimated of 2 to one now that sounds awful that two civilians are killed to every one combatant and it needs to be seen in its proper context because all war is awful and according to the United Nations the global average for urban Warfare such as this is a staggering nine to one civilians killed so nine civilians to one combatant sorry uh in terms of casualty ratios according uh to the Americans um their statistics for Iraq and Afghanistan are between uh 1 to three and 1 to five 5 to1 3: one so three civilians killed for every one combatant and five civilians for every one combatant respectively so in all of those respects in all of those contexts despite the Hamas tactics here despite the unparalleled and unprecedented challenges that Israel is encountering of Hamas embedding themselves in schools and Hospitals and Clinics and using ambulances to transport weapons and um and fighter and uh it seems now that the tactic that has been uh well documented is that Hamas Fighters dressed in civilian clothes move from house to house every second uh civilian residential house in Gaza it would seem has a weapons caching in it uh Hamas Fighters move between houses and civilian clothing go into a house fire from it and then leave and go on to the next weapons Casher in the next house uh thereby seeking to uh evade um uh attack by pretending to be civilians as well as embedding themselves of course amongst real civilians women and children the sick and the elderly and of course we also know amongst Israeli hostages um Israel has said it knows where yya Sina uh is and it has him in its sights but he has surrounded himself with Israeli hostages seeking to render himself immune from Attack in the context of these tactics the civilian to combatant ratio is remarkable that Israel has been able to achieve but it is Testament to the length that Israel goes to protect the civilians in the Gaza Strip uh not just from Israeli uh strikes but also from attack from Kat themselves now we're speaking on the 15th of janary and uh a couple of days ago the sou African government um put forward its case before for the international court of justice and Israel was able to respond the following day um the afrian government provided Israel with very scant opportunity to put in a defense their papers were filed on the 29th of December and they wanted a hearing within days um which is what they really got um what do you make of the case made by South Africa the South African government claims that Israel is committing genocide a particularly uh egregious thing to say about the only Jewish Nation where people really did endure a genocide um and then what do you make of Israel's response to that case well the reason that South Africa has levied this particular Canard of genocide against the Jewish state is because it provides a hook for jurisdiction at the international court of justice um let me be clear there is no validity No Merit neither the facts or the law as South Africa are seeking to advance it in its case against Israel uh and its victory in uh the application that it made uh against Israel the international court of justice as you say on Thursday last week uh was as a as a public relations exercise this was a set of submissions made the international media and in that respect uh they have um certainly been uh able to achieve a margin of success because the discussion now is as uh as Preposterous as uh as it would uh as as Preposterous as it is uh the discussion is about whether or not Israel is committing a genocide the irony of this should not be lost uh ironic because the term genocide was coined by Raphael lkin in the aftermath of the second world war to give a legal uh lexicon to the annihilation of substantial part of the Jewish people who were exterminated because of their race and so the crime of genocide is about intending to destroy a people in whole or in part because of who they are now I've talked about some of the measures that Israel has taken to protect the Palestinian civilians in Gaza much of the submission that Israel put forward on Friday of last week also evidenced the unparalleled humanitarian efforts and initiatives that Israel has been conducting in the Gaza Strip and that uh coupled with the precautions that are being taken by the IDF uh ultimately put the lie to what the South Africans were seeking to advance in terms of intention um in the context of the 84-page application that South Africa Advanced the intention aspects were covered by a series of misrepresentations of quotes of Israeli officials um where they were talking about Kamas and the South African uh legal team uh presented these quotations as though uh the Israelis were seeking to um eliminate the Palestinian people as opposed to Hamas well the intention is clear from the context of the quotations but it's also clear from the actions on the ground uh that Israel has gone above and beyond to protect the Palestinian people even though Hamas continues to subjugate abuse and uh seek to uh offer them up as um as as civilian uh sacrifices to their war effort um whether or not uh South Africa will be successful in uh what it seeks to achieve even in the immediate term which are provisional measures and this is this is why the case was heard so quickly um when you say that it didn't give Israel a chance to respond I'm afraid it's even worse than that it transpired from uh Israel's submissions on the Friday that the usual course uh which is that one state um interacts corresponds with another to establish uh whether there is a dispute if so what the nature of that dispute between the two states is before an application is brought to the Court of uh the international court of justice it transpires that that that wasn't done and it also uh was part of Israel's case that South Africa has in fact misled the court as to the correspondence that took place Between the States before uh the application was made and the reason this is significant uh is because South Africa has by all accounts jumped the gun has made this application but without following through the proper processes the accepted procedure of engaging with the state of Israel before going to the court which would mean that the court has no jurisdiction to even hear the matter um so we'll have to see what the international court of justice determines but it is of critical importance not just to Israel but to all law-abiding states upholders of the rule of law because the international court of justice is currently being abused by South Africa South Africa that seems to be championing the terrorists Hamas the internationally prescribed terrorist organization and Hamas came out to formerly thank South Africa for their good work at the international court of justice in the wake of their submissions um so the fact that uh the South African seek to promote the cause of Hamas are seeking an order or an indication from the court that Israel should immediately cease its operation in Gaza against Hamas its lawful self-defense um means that uh in very many respects I think there can be arguments that the South Africans are themselves now complicit in the genocide that Hamas began on the 7th of October and is seeking to continue and here we're talking about real genocide acts that a couple with the intent to eradicate Jews and Hamas leadership has been clear about that so in this Topsy Turvy uh World in which we live and this grotesque inversion of hamas's application um the danger of this is is not necessarily strictly for for Israel I mean if if the court um orders Israel to cease it its self-defense that is of course contrary to its inherent rights under international law and I cannot see a situation in which Israel would be able to sit on its hands while its civilians are continuing uh to be subject to bombardment by Hamas and while uh Hamas are continuing to to seek to replicate the 7th of October and while they hold over a hundred hostages that they are are doubtless continuing um to abuse so in those circumstances I cannot uh see what practical impact provisional measures ordered by the court would have other than to utterly undermine The credibility of the court and I think this much has been recognized by the United States by the United Kingdom by Germany who have all come out to condemn what they consider to be a meritless case and Germany in particular has said that it will be making submissions on Israel's behalf if this matter moves past the preliminary stage to the substantive hearings uh the reason we need to watch this space as I think lawyers uh is is not just because of uh potential ramifications for for Israel in international legal discourse but critically also for where the international court of justice is heading because if it has now also become a casualty of lawfare which is an abuse of legal processes and an abuse of legal institutions to promote a political agenda then that is a very sad day for international law and order L return to the humanitarian question um I think think your point is very well put that Israel has aided in humanitarian um efforts one of the objections put forward uh by the pro Palestinian side is that Israel has generated a humanitarian nightmare um by moving large parts of Gaza to other parts of Gaza by um undermining um their productive rights because Hospital facilities that allow for wom to to give birth safety have been undermined um how do you how do you uh weigh up those sort of claims um against against Israel's objective to to eliminate Kamas well I think the first thing is that these claims need to be called out for being false uh in terms of uh the hospitals allegation uh it's clear and there is mounting evidence of Hamas systematically using hospital and medical facilities as Terror command and control centers and as critical parts of its Terror infrastructure this is not just a a violation of the laws of armed conflict it is a grotesque violation when one considers that hospitals in particular are the most protected um buildings in the context of the laws of AR conflict even a military hospital is protected uh if it is being used solely for the purpose of of treating uh military wounded and here Hamas is is abusing the laws of AR conflict uh to further these aims and quite the contrary Israel has been very careful with respect to uh dealing with the terror infrastructure embedded in these hospitals uh in Al sheifer of course rather than bombarding the hospital it went in uh at Great danger and threat to uh to the um soldiers themselves but they went into the hospital with medics with Arabic speakers in order to try and distinguish the uh terrorist combatants from uh the legitimate sick uh and medical star and this I stress was after repeated warnings uh and requests that people Evacuate the hospital uh and that leads me on to the the first point that you uh raised which is to do with the movement of of civilians uh in Gaza let me be clear Israel cannot uh and certainly at the start of this process when it gave the civilian population 3 weeks to evacuate the north of Gaza before it began its operations there against Hamas Israel had no control or power to force civilian movements anywhere it sought to create safe corridors and safe areas humanitarian zones which in fact Hamas specifically fired at Israel from again uh abusing uh the the the very essence of of the laws of armed conflict and the principle of dis of separating between civilians and combatants Hamas does not do that um but quite apart from Israel having any ability to uh to force civilians to move anywhere what it did was was seek to uh provide safe routes for evacuation and encourage civilians to leave the central terrorist infrastructure in the north of uh the Gaza Strip in order to save their lives and for that to be so utterly inverted and used again Israel in this fashion uh is Kafkaesque uh it is um I think also probably unparalleled in in the history of international law that one has such a grotesque inversion of reality and the truth uh and uh it being used to ground allegations of of that nature so that's the first thing that we need to do is call out the falsehoods here and when it comes to balancing well you know that's all to do with the proportionality exercise uh that Israel is required to uh conduct uh and it does so and and we see the results of that um many of of the casualties uh that the IDF have suffered uh as a result of going house to house are because Israel is trying to conduct this conflict in a surgical fashion and ensure that it targets the Hamas terrorists in amongst the civilian uh population that has uh refused to comply uh that has refused to uh evacuate um and uh we're seeing on a daily basis uh the result of that unfortunate um the unfortunate consequences of that but it is a decision that Israel takes because uh it holds so highly the preservation of all civilian life so one move that's often made in these discussions is to claim that Israel has been uh unfairly targeted that the number of resolutions at the United Nations that Target Israel I think far exceeds those against all other countries in the world uh that many of those that sit on human rights councils those states are involved in horrendous human rights trusties that uh in South Africa you find that there's very little condemnation of the treatment of Muslims around the world that no one talks about the weers no one talks about who were being killed in Sudan in fact the South African government provided a safe passage to um someone who was charged with genocide Omar Al Basher um that he was um um allowed to escape um from South Africa despite South Africa signing the Rome statute which would have obliged it to hand a share off to the ICC so there's that claim and the other claim is that whenever any of these examples are brought up the claim is that it's a whataboutism that you're changing the topic in an unfair manner so how do we distinguish between those two things whether one is to provide a context and the other is to unfairly change the topic um the issue here is that it's not simply what about um it's not that you know Israel is a uh violator of international law but so are loads of others and everyone's focusing on Israel it's that um actors like the South Africans but they're certainly not alone and the references that you made to un resolutions are a case in point um they attribute to Israel uh breaches of international law which are simply not true while at the same time ignoring the real real violations of international law and the real abuses of Human Rights the disproportionate focus on Israel um would be terrible uh if Israel was just as much of a human rights violator as all of the others that were lacking in in a lens being placed upon them uh but the reason that it is uh so much worse than that is because of the Fabrications around Israel uh and the uh the human rights situation um this I think uh ultimately can only be explained by uh what has been referred to as a as an evolution of anti-Semitism um a mutating virus that anti-Semitism is it it takes on different forms in throughout the ages in fact uh the late great Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sachs um the former Chief Rabbi of of the United Kingdom uh talked about this mutating virus that began in in the Middle Ages uh with a focus on Jews as a religion and one had the ancient blood liables of Jews killing Christian children to use their blood to make M for religious rituals he explained that when science took over from religion as the order of the day the hatred of the Jews mutated into a hatred of the Jewish race and so the Cudo science of eugenics was used by the Nazis to justify their hatred of the Jewish race and Lord sax explained that in uh the modern era international law and human rights even had taken over uh from science as the order of the day and so the hatred of the Jews manifested itself as a hatred of the Jewish State and the modern blood lables are those that we see being AED against Israel at institutions like the United Nations ethnic cleansing colonialism occupation oppression apartheid illegality human rights violations War CRI crimes these are the modern blood lials and so it's important not just to point out where the real violation of The Happening which I appreciate as what you refer to as water Bouy but to call out the untruths against the only Jewish State because the blood liable in the Middle Ages was widely believed and these modern blood libl have gained traction because of this process of lawfare which has been decades in the making and because of armies of NOS that manufacture these allegations and and pseudo evidence that they uh seek to put before uh International legal organizations and uh the application that was Advanced by South Africa cited chapter and verse much of uh that false material seeking uh through its application in fact and through the consideration of the court of these reports to to receive the the judicial stamp of approval on these falsehoods that is an integral part of the lawfare process that South Africa have adopted and another important parallel track and aim uh that is uh being sought to be achieved through the through the case at the international court of justice and it's important that we we call that out not just say there is disproportionate focus on Israel but also there is utterly wrongful focus on Israel on the basis of false allegations you mentioned occupation and that seems to be one of the the the feat in this argument um that's been used since the beginning um what what is the argument um that's been put forward for Israel's occupation of Gaza that it is an occupation and has been for decades and and why is it a poor argument well the argument that's Advanced and I don't think it's taken seriously by any um International lawyers wor worth their salt is that um because uh there is a an argument that Israel control again it's it's based on F premises so it runs like this Israel controls uh the Gaza Strip because it controls the uh borders it controls the airspace it controls shipping and what goes in um now that is factually incorrect of course because if anyone looked at a map they would see that Gaza also borders Egypt as well as Israel uh but the reason that it's also uh even if that were the case it would be legally incorrect is because that is not how the occupation uh framework operates uh and that is why the the term occupation here is being used as a as a political term it is without legal basis it is an abuse of international law um under the ha regulations occupation requires effective control well you can see that Israel has not had any control over the Gaza Strip because over the last 16 years Hamas has turned it into a terror base and since Israel withdrew in 2005 and then subsequently there were elections in 2006 and Hamas uh launched a violent takeover a coup in 2007 uh Israel has not had any control of what goes on in the Gaza Strip uh and in excess of its International legal obligations it has however continued to supply um the Palestinians in Gaza uh with uh with supplies with humanitarian supplies with a portion of of its water and a portion of its electricity by no means all of it there was a great deal of factual misrepresentation that is uh that is at issue here but when we look at the concept of occupation I think we need to look at you know where it has come from and what international law says about the legal status of the territory and here where faced with a with another massive misrepresentation and and misapplication of international law there is a universal rule uh that tells us the borders of a state when it comes into existence it is a matter of customary international law it is called ostis Urus and it seems to be applied absolutely everywhere except with respect to the Jewish States so this is a rule that developed uh in the 18th 19th century it was applied in South America the withdrawal of the the Spanish it was applied in Asia in Africa uh the dissolution of the former communist federations and it was applied to all the states that emerged from mandates um the international court of justice recognized the development of this rule oset Urus in the bino Mal uh in the bikin Faso Mali case in the 1980s and it talked about why this rule had come into existence um this rule dictated that uh dictates still that a new state when it comes into existence inherit the pre-existing administrative lines that preceded it um so whatever entity was there before if a state comes in it declares itself within that territory then the lines absent any agreement to the contrary so this is a default rule those administrative lines become the new State's International borders and when the court analyzed the emergence of this rule it talked about the reasons that it had developed to provide stability and certainty and to prevent fractu cdal struggles uh and to provide clean lines well in Israel's case after uh the severance by the British of the uh trans Jordan part of the Mandate which later became the hashimite kingdom uh the eastern boundary of the British mandate in 1948 ran along the Jordan River and all the way south to the red to to the Red Sea uh so when Israel declares independence in 1948 it's the only state the only state to come into existence the Declaration of Independence doesn't make any mention of Borders or boundaries it simply refers to Israel the land of Israel butus works as a default rule it works in the absence of any agreement to the country and according to the application of this Universal rule of customary international law Israel inherited the pre-existing administrative lines of the Mandate as as its International borders now in the context of uh the eastern boundary that included the West Bank and East Jerusalem in the context of of the western boundary with Egypt that included Gaza that was part of the British mandate territory now in 1948 Israel is attacked immediately at its Declaration of Independence and Jordan occupies uh the West Bank and East Jerusalem and Egypt occupies Gaza what happens in 1967 Israel recovers that territory in in Jordan uh from Jordan uh the east east Jerusalem and West Bank that had been ethnically cleansed by the jordanians of their Jews Israel recovers that territory so what is the status of that territory if it was originally Israeli Sovereign territory and then under Jordanian occupation what happens when Israel takes it back we have a parallel example a modern one in the context of Russ Russia and Ukraine so Ukraine's borders were formed according to the rule of oset Urus and that is why it is uh generally accepted that Crimea is part of Ukraine and Russia has occupied Crimea from Ukraine in the same way that Jordan occupied the West Bank and East Jerusalem from Israel and if Ukraine were to recover Crimea in the context of this war that Russia has waged against it would anyone accuse Ukraine of occupying Crimea from Russia of course not and yet we have an inversion of international law when it comes to Israel now it's critical to be clear that we're talking about the underlying status of the territory this doesn't presuppose what any political settlement ought to look like uh and plainly when Israel recovered that territory in the West Bank in 1967 it it instituted a temporary Administration it did not apply its law administration and sovereignty in full in the same way that it did in Jerusalem because it anticipated under the land for peace formula that it would uh inevitably provide a portion of that land to Jordan as part of the peace agreement when that peace agreement finally came around in 1994 uh the jordanians didn't want any part of it so that ship sailed and subsequently Israel has consistently sought to negotiate under that land for peace formula uh with the Palestinians and Oslo was the Oslo process was a critical part of that but that's all the politics of this if we're talking about the law and being honest about the application of international law to the status of the territory then this term occupation has no place here it is a political term it has no legal uh basis if it's the case Israel is able to eradicate Hamas what obligations does it have to the Palestinians who reside there what obligations does it have to its own citizens so what should be done going forward that's a big question um when I talked about uh the absence of occupation as a as a legitimate framework in international law um of course that is the case as of uh the 6th of October the 7th of October and suddenly through the the early period uh of Israel's war in Gaza um the situation on the ground is changing all of the time and if and when it gets to a point where Israel does in fact have effective control over some of the territory uh then the legal framework and that position will change um so that's something to be mindful of but in the context of you know what happens essentially the day after this war the day after Israel is able to successfully eradicate Hamas um that is a big question and I think the best uh proposals that I have seen uh that have been muted so far rely on uh Going Back to Basics in terms of the uh culture and the society and the societal building blocks in the Gaza Strip and ensuring that uh rather than a uh terrorist organization an extremist um prescribed group like Hamas uh which is essentially a proxy for the Iranian regime rather than importing the Palestinian Authority who support terrorism through their pay for slay program and their indoctrination program um there ought to be self-governance in the Gaza Strip and security uh and a a provision to make sure that nothing like hamas's takeover of the Gaza Strip can ever happen again there are proposals for uh if you will a formulation along the lines of the Marshall Plan uh to rebuild uh German after the second world war that are being muted also uh but they have to be seen in parallel and alongside a densification process a process that grapples with uh the rotten education system the UN rum unra schools that are promoting terrorism and indoctrinating child abuse indoctrinating kindergarten children uh to want to grow up to become terrorists that has to be grappled with because there will never be a solution in which uh the Gaza Strip ceases to pose a threat to Israel while that indoctrination continues and the International Community have to take responsibility for it because it is with International funding of these textbooks and these schools and these un run programs that they have been fueling the conflict and that is something that the world needs to stand up and take responsibility for and make sure that going forward the same mistakes are not repeated well Natasha I want to thank you for an absolutely incredible conversation um you've provided so much light at a time of darkness and I just applaud the work that you continue to do um to ensure that everybody finds out what is really happening in Israel um happening with the law and uh I just wish you all of the best thank you so much it's very good to be with you and I very much hope for better times for all of us

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